Posts by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

If that for you is an indication that those people never had faith in God then it is my assumption that there might be something wrong in your thinking.

I left them because of my faith of God.

I am aware that the Bible encourages us to gather with other believers, therefore I go to church.

Who are you to make these kind of accusations without having a fact based argumentation or logic reasoning?

Edit: do you prefer to be in a Kingdom Hall instead of a Church? Am interested in your reasoning.

15

Attitude in Kingdom Hall vs. in church

by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

so, today i went to a different church than the jw's for the first time in over three years.. it is a protestant african church.

my first thoughts: for people who are 'trapped in babylon the great (according to watchtower) these people really seem genuingly happy and sincere in their adoration for god.

what a freedom compared to the witnesses!

Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

So, today I went to a different church than the JW's for the first time in over three years.

It is a protestant African church. My first thoughts: for people who are 'trapped in Babylon the Great (according to Watchtower) these people really seem genuingly happy and sincere in their adoration for God. What a freedom compared to the witnesses! Babylon the Great feels amazing.

In the kingdom hall I always felt that most of the young people (I mean from 15-25 years, I'm 21 myself) do not even seem to believe in God. They just go to the kingdom hall for whatever reason, but not for God. They don't truly serve God, and if they do, then it surely is not in sincerity. Of course there is a minority of them that truly believes.

But for the majority, I really think they are secretly atheist/agnostic. Do other people have the same thoughts?

In this African church, people are really amazing and truly full of love for God. They are 10000% more Christian than the JW's.

It feels good to be in a church of believers.

Instead of being in a kingdom hall with... don't know how to call them....at least not believers..

40

Uk members ?

by midnight in

jw
friends

hi anyone from the uk ?

.

Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

Bremen region, Germany, but would love to live in the UK

29

Actions and consequences of Lot’s wife vs. David

by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

actions and consequences of lot’s wife vs. actions and consequences of david.

genesis 19 talks about how sodom and gomorrah were destroyed.

david under any law: yes, under the law of moses crime: adultery and murder consequence: nothing but blessings from god.

Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

David Jay

Remember, the word "tradition" means "teaching" or "doctine" in a theological context (very different from what Jehovah's Witnesses teach).
JWs interpret "tradition" to mean that which originates with humans and not God, which of course makes 2 Thessalonians 2:15 unreadable

I actually was not aware of this.I must say the teachings of the witnesses are still affecting me. I have to do more research to get rid of their influence. It makes sense what you say.

The sources are very numerous as they cover secular and Jewish history, include comments from both the Jewish religion and secular archeology. How would you like to proceed? We are talking thousands and thousands and thousands of years of history.

Do you know of some good books that address this topic? I do not need to get into all the traditions of the Jews. However, in relation to Biblical topics such as the story of Lot, it can most certainly clarify certain things (on the condition that we can trust these traditions of course).

29

Actions and consequences of Lot’s wife vs. David

by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

actions and consequences of lot’s wife vs. actions and consequences of david.

genesis 19 talks about how sodom and gomorrah were destroyed.

david under any law: yes, under the law of moses crime: adultery and murder consequence: nothing but blessings from god.

Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

Punkofnice
Oh well, that's me out of the discussion. I don't believe the Bible is accurate and certainly not the word of god.....god cannot possibly exist.

1. I don't believe the Bible is accurate and certainly not the word of god

2. God cannot possibly exist.

If point 1 is the reason for you to not believe in God, I do not think you have a strong case. Point 1 does not necessarily lead to point 2. Of course God can exist. I understand that people think the Bible is inaccurate and not the Word of God, but that does not solve the question whether God exists or not.

God can reveal Himself through for instance nature. No Bible involved there.

You can never be sure that God does not exist. What are your reasons for it?

29

Actions and consequences of Lot’s wife vs. David

by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

actions and consequences of lot’s wife vs. actions and consequences of david.

genesis 19 talks about how sodom and gomorrah were destroyed.

david under any law: yes, under the law of moses crime: adultery and murder consequence: nothing but blessings from god.

Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

Drearyweather

The point you make about Genesis 19:17 is really nice. I think I missed this meaning while reading the chapter.

For me, it does not matter whether Lot considered them as angels or mere strangers. But he considered their message as God’s command and diligently acted upon it. In fact, some Early Hebrew manuscripts render Genesis 19:18 as "Oh no, Yahweh, please!....", i.e Lot considered them messengers or spokesmen of God.

I think our discussion comes down to this point. For me, it is vital to know whether Lot and his family were aware of the fact that these men were angels. In my view, if they took this message as a message from men, they could not have been held accountable by God for their actions, since they did not know whether it was a commandment made by God. God is not a God of confusion, He would bring his message as clear as possible. The problem I think, is that it can not be said with certainty how this event really took place.

I still think this event is unjust and Lot's wife did not deserve to get the punishment that she received, if you compare this to the actions of David. It seems out of proportion to me.

29

Actions and consequences of Lot’s wife vs. David

by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

actions and consequences of lot’s wife vs. actions and consequences of david.

genesis 19 talks about how sodom and gomorrah were destroyed.

david under any law: yes, under the law of moses crime: adultery and murder consequence: nothing but blessings from god.

Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

David Jay

Very interesting what you say. There is a lot of information in your post, I will have to take more time to do the research. To what extent are the traditions of the Jews trustworthy? You say

One tradition saying that Lot's wife used the preparation of the pathetic dinner as a reason to beg salt from the neighbors with the real intention of spreading the news of her husband's visitors and thus setting the attack in motion.

A tradition is not necessarily something to put faith in. What makes you believe the traditions mentioned in your post are true?

Lot's wife helped to orchestrate group rapes and the murder of visitors to Sodom

This is a very heavy accusation. Reading the Bible, we do not read any of this.

Can you perhaps provide me with the sources of the texts and Jewish traditions where you have read this, and describe their trustworthiness?

Would love to read the Jewish texts.

Thanks.

29

Actions and consequences of Lot’s wife vs. David

by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

actions and consequences of lot’s wife vs. actions and consequences of david.

genesis 19 talks about how sodom and gomorrah were destroyed.

david under any law: yes, under the law of moses crime: adultery and murder consequence: nothing but blessings from god.

Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

Drearyweather

Thanks for your answer. I can agree with a great part of it.

You said:

Any divine command given prior to the Mosaic times constituted as 'law' to those hearing it and incurred capital punishment for non-adherence.

Reading chapter 19, one can read that the angels only were talking to Lot. Whether Lot's wife heard this cannot be known by the information we receive from this chapter. From verse 10 to 12, the angels in the form of men were only engaged in a conversation with Lot. I understand your point here, but we cannot say with certainty that Lot's wife was hearing the conversation between the men and Lot.

Moreover, where does the Bible tell that any commandments before the Mosaic Law applied to all those hearing it? The commandments given to Abraham in chapter 17, the Covenant of circumsision, were not heard by any other persons than Abraham. It applied however to the descendants of Abraham (verse 9), which were not there when God made the covenant with Abraham. I am not sure if this point is completely relevant to what you say, but I just had to think of this.

Furthermore, I would like to point out the difference of the covenant of God with Abraham and the advice of the angels for Lot.

Genesis chapter 17 begins with this:

Verse 1: When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him

Verse 9: Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant,you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep

It is very clear that Abraham was aware that it was God talking to him, because he appeared to him.

For the angels that came to Lot, I understand your view that he might have been aware that they were angels. But this is highly doubtful. I am not convinced that Lot was aware of this.

To make a new point, however unrelated to what you said:

Genesis 19:16 When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the Lord was merciful to them.

First, God is merciful and led Lot and his family safely out of the city, and just moments later, He seems to have changed His mind 180 degrees and kills Lot's wife. What is merciful about that?

I actually do try to believe that this story has happened the way you describe, but some conclusions cannot be made with the information available to us. I still believe that Lot and his family were not aware that the strangers were in fact angels.